Kinda sorta maybe political Oppo? Hell, I dunno....

"mkbruin, Atlas VP" (mkbruin)
05/29/2018 at 08:22 • Filed to: None

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I just read a fun piece at the Atlantic about the decline of teen car culture. The author seems hell-bent on tying everything to racism, which I find quite ludicrous; however, the rest of the article has some interesting premises....

1) used junkers cost too much. I disagree here. Decent cars are everywhere for $500-2000, which adjusted for inflation is not far off the few hundred yout’s would pay back in the good old days.

2) family income level is correlated with teenage driving. I don’t argue this.... But I think it’s for a different reason..... insurance rates. My best friend has three teenage daughters, $1,500 apiece per year for insurance. That’s $250/mo just for two of his kids. One daughter costs more per month than me, my wife, and four cars combined.

3) the article looks at some hard numbers, but ignores certain trends. For instance, the effect of Fast and Furious on youth culture when it came out. Given the original film is now old enough to drive itself, teens of today have no real frame of reference into car culture outside a handful of douchebag YouTube influencers.

So, yougins of Oppo..... Why does your generation hate cars?

DISCUSSION (34)

For Sweden > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 08:43

[Cash for Clunkers destroys all the cheap cars]

“Why aren’t American teens buying cars?”

Berang > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 08:46

Simple, the economy took a massive dump, and everybody who wasn’t already in the scene couldn’t afford to get into it. There was about a half decade where everything just vanished. It’s coming back, but it took a while.

PartyPooper2012 > For Sweden
05/29/2018 at 08:53

to be fair cash for clunkers destroyed a lot of clunkers that did not need saving. Hondas and toyotas are still out there to be found.

Spanfeller is a twat > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 08:54

Oldmabscreamsatcloud.gif

Also, cars nowadays tend to be more of a nuisance than a pleasure in large cities, specially if those have effective public transport like nyc.

random001 > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 08:54

I can’t find a decent car for $2000. Of course, my definitions of “decent” and “car” may be the cause...

Spanfeller is a twat > For Sweden
05/29/2018 at 08:55

[adjusted for inflation income has plummeted in the last years]

“Why aren’t millenials buying (INSERT ITEM)”

pip bip - choose Corrour > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 08:58

mandatory insurance probably isn’t helping, as well as minimum wage jobs and lack of hours working in general.

more worried about staying connected than driving.

i’m just guessing, i could be completely wrong too.

Flavien Vidal > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 08:58

I’m not exactly concerned by the last question, but yeah, coming from a wealthy family does help a lot nowadays in order to be “into cars”... Not even talking about the whole “being into cars instead of being into feeding yourself” thing, this generation needs to spend quite a bit of money to get ahold of driver oriented cars....those same cars that got us into driving. 15 years ago you could get AWESOME cars for next to nothing. Those same cars your parents grew up with... Alfa 2000GTV? 2000$. Peugeot 205 GTI? 1500$. Heck, my father’s Alpine A110 was worth 15000$ 15 years ago... It’s worth over 100k$ today.

And what do kids get nowadays? A society that is over protective and want every kids to get a car that is less than 5 year old for security purposes and cars that are genuinely shit. Toyota 86? It’s dull and worth 15k$. Focus RS? Fuck who want to spend that much into it?? That Giulia 2000GTV is now worth 30k$ and that PEugeot 205GTi has 300.000km and is still worth 10k$.

Insurance isn’t helping either with rates in the US being more and more expensive for younger drivers... So... What do you do now? There isn’t much choice for cheap fun driver’s cars... Even Miata are getting expensive and they suck if you have family and a social life... Kids today are pushed away from cars and I get it. I would too if I were a teen today.

Die-Trying > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 09:02

Kinja'd!!!

there are LOTS of cheap fun cars out there....... they just happen to be old, and unsafe, and require continuous supervision of the cars GAUGES, and require maintenance, and a working knowledge of HOW things work......... kids these days dont even HAVE an attention span...... parents refuse to put their kids in anything “unsafe” or crash test rating of less than 6 stars......something about “standards” that i just dont understand........

more fun old junk for the rest of us........

jimz > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 09:07

meh, more Boomer whining about how things aren’t like they (think they) were in the 1960s.

What is it about old guys (and it’s always guys) who are so intensely in love with memories of their adolescences? Newsflash- most of you were nobody back then, and you’re nobody now. I don’t care how much you think you were hot shit when you were a teenager. I don’t want to hear about your “old stompin’ grounds,” or anything about when you “came of age.”

your kids aren’t clones of you. you can’t force them to be interested in or like the same things you do, so stop fucking whining about it.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 09:08

Teens don’t have money -For Cars, Insurance, Gas etc. and teens today are more diverse than any other demographic group making a large number of them AfricanAmerican or Hispanic so...

Also wanted to dispel the myth (and popular argument) that most Millennials and GenZ live in urban areas that makes cars unattractive and impractical to them.

Kinja'd!!!

Chuckles > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 09:14

Fewer teens behind the wheel? Good. We’re all better off that way. 2 people in my high school class died before graduation because they were making bad decisions behind the wheel, and it seems like you hear of another kid dying in a crash pretty regularly. Driving was by far the most dangerous thing that I did as a teenager, and I jumped out of an airplane twice.

Under_Score > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 09:16

There are also a lot of parents that are just selfish and don’t care about their kids. Based on the geographic locations of many people down at school, there are a lot of people that come from much wealthier families than me, but a lot of their cars would be worth less than mine if you went to a used dealer to buy one. Rick and Carol spent $300,000 on a lake house on Lake Lanier and bought a brand new 2018 F-250 while their sorority girl daughter is driving a 2005 Liberty with 150,000 miles. My mom also makes very good financial decisions, so we can have things that people that earn twice as much as my dad would struggle to afford (ex. cars for their kids).

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 09:16

Full disclosure: I have no insight into the US used market, I’m not even going to try. This is specifically a Toronto Ontario Canada POV.

1) I’ll give you this. Provided you’re not picky, and don’t mind working on cars, you can scoop some basic transport for pretty cheap.

2) Insurance in particular is killer. When I was 16 we had an old Chevy van I loved... my dad wanted to replace it. He was willing to pass it on to me, but I’d have to be a primary driver... He got a quote for me, bundled with his insurance, it came out to $6000/yr. For a 24-yo full size van. So, if you’re not employed and/or don’t have parents that are willing to pay at least a good chunk of the insurance cost, you can’t get a car. Simple as that. Then, consider more people than ever are going to college/uni (not saying that’s bad), a car could an even dumber financial decision, especially if you pick one in the heart of the city. And whenever along that line it comes time to live on your own, the costs around here are sky-high. What this amounts to is, IMO, you need major parental support early on in this city. Otherwise, you’ll just end up in a beige Corolla years down the line when you finally both need and can afford a car.

3) This, plus the propagated culture of late that the car is the root of all evil.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > pip bip - choose Corrour
05/29/2018 at 09:24

I don’t have a problem with mandatory insurance, as a principle. I also am not the kind of person who likes the government stepping in and running everything.

However, to my mind, if the government is going to mandate that you have to have insurance for something—whether that be auto, house, health etc—they should provide an affordable option. Doesn’t have to be more than minimum coverage—I’m happy with them providing what they legislated we all have to have, and saying “if you want more that’s what the private companies are for”. I just don’t like the idea of creating a captive market and then throwing you to the wolves.

ihm96 > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 09:26

Im 22 now but when I was 16-17 ish the used car thing was certainly true, probably due to cash for clunkers artificially altering the market for a while but it’s certainly returned more to normal imo. I bought a 500$ running inspected corolla this year but when I was in high school anything in my area under 2k wasn’t running pretty much.

Tekamul > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 09:30

That acceptable price point may be a regional thing.

In Norther New England, I can’t count on 1 hand, the number of cars on CL under $2k that will pass the next state inspection.

So many ‘yard trucks’, and ‘inspected through August 2018', and ‘parts only’. I saw a list below you have with a lot of 90's cars. There are so few cars here from the 90's, they merit gasping and pointing, like when I saw a 4th gen civic on my ride in today.

jimz > Under_Score
05/29/2018 at 09:30

FWIW nearly every kid I knew whose parent bought him or her a nice car ended up trashing it in short order.

I don’t care for this idea that kids are “entitled” to a nice car just because.

Chuckles > jimz
05/29/2018 at 09:31

Old headlines from back in the day:

“Horse and Buggy culture on the decline”

“Why don’t today’s kids like getting Polio anymore?”

“Stock market tumbles as kids are no longer interested in playing ‘kick the can’”

Berang > jimz
05/29/2018 at 09:39

Why have millenials stopped buying whale oil lamps?

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 09:39

We don’t. We just are working at other things. Insurance is expensive, even if you’re driving an almost 20 year old Toyota. Everyone I know is absolutely killing themselves with advanced classes and standardized tests to try and get to the best college possible. Saving for college is important, more important than a project car at this point. Also, depending on where you’re going, taking even one car might be a hassle and even more cost.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Berang
05/29/2018 at 09:45

Two words. Moby Dick.

fintail > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 09:52

This type of old man yelling at clouds whine might be good proof of the socio-economic chasm that has opened since the luckiest generation could be considered young (and how out of touch said generation can be regarding the realities of today). For many, when the cost of housing, medical care, education, and many other cost of living factors have increased much faster than wages (not to mention cars and fuel), there’s either not enough money, or something better for which to spend their dwindling discretionary income. Horrific traffic in places where people want to live, along with crumbling roads, also don’t help.

Car culture is alive, it is just more subtle.

duurtlang > Under_Score
05/29/2018 at 09:59

selfish and don’t care about their kids

Buying your child a relatively cheap but still multiple thousands of dollars worth of car is not in any way ‘selfish’. At all. It doesn’t mean you don’t care either, in any way. Even if you’re a millionaire. Exposing your kids to luxury isn’t a sign of good (or bad) parenting. A good parent gives his kids the tools they need to make it on their own. So, if you live in a place where a car is (close to) a necessity than helping your kid into a car that reliably does its job can be the role of a good parent. If the kid want something fancy , he can buy it himself.

smobgirl > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 10:06

The teens I teach don’t really have influences that are into cars. It seems to me that’s one of the things kids can stumble into but generally, you “inherit” some of that interest by having a family member who is into cars. In 8-9 years at this school I’ve had one set of parents with any interest - they used to compete in rock crawler competitions(or something). Their kid is the one I have to stop from doing donuts and drag racing in the parking lot.

ttyymmnn > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 10:10

I read the article, but I must have missed the part about racism.

sony1492 > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 10:22

When I was in school a few years ago it boiled down to:

1.) Getting a drivers permit is a hassle, it sounds simple on paper but figuring out what steps to take and where is easier said then done. I tried 2-3 times to take my driving test before I had all the right information with me.

2.) The license has a curfew and you can’t have passengers under 21. So basically you can’t drive friends, and you can’t be up late doing whatever youths do. I remember that since I was one of the few with a car id end up driving everyone to parties fitting 8 people in a Honda civic. Not everyone my age was that irresponsible though, they saw little point to the hassle and cost.

3.) An extension of point #2: It requires a driving class be taken with an instructor which cost more money and requires more planning. It’s not helpful either, it’s just driving in a beat to shit cavalier getting zero advise while he talks about his days as a communication something or other in the military setting up special radar. The advise he does give is bad,”when pulling over to let them pass, don’t come to a complete stop”

Under_Score > duurtlang
05/29/2018 at 10:27

The reason my car is as nice as it is is because it was my mom’s. If my mom drove a 2002 Camry, that’s what I’d drive. It just so happened to be that my mom’s car is a lot like the cars wealthier girls get from their dads when they turn 16.

crowmolly > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 10:29

1) used junkers cost too much. I disagree here. Decent cars are everywhere for $500-2000, which adjusted for inflation is not far off the few hundred yout’s would pay back in the good old days.

Not just the initial purchase price. That car also needs maintenance, and if you’re a broke kid you can’t give much to a mechanic. Sure, you can do some stuff yourself, but it’s nowhere near as easy as it was years ago. Plus moms and dads don’t work on their own shit, so the tools aren’t in the garage and the skills aren’t in the household.

Legit. Insurance is expensive.

Eh. I kind of don’t buy this. If the cars were/are there, there would be culture. Sure, maybe kids are more into drifting than driving an old deuce coupe like their grandpa, but the base passion is still there.

Under_Score > jimz
05/29/2018 at 10:32

My first car wasn’t even very nice; it was a 2007, but it had manual windows and locks and pretty much no features (Ford Ranger). My current car was my mom’s back when I drove the Ranger, and now she drives something newer and nicer. There’s also a factor of trust. The reason my parents let me drive a car that retailed for $29,000 just six years ago is because they know I’m not reckless and I make good decisions; if I had ten tickets and had been in four wrecks, they probably wouldn’t let me have a car at all.

Berang > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
05/29/2018 at 10:42

Damn liberal press making the whaling industry look insane.

Berang > fintail
05/29/2018 at 12:22

It might be that old people just don’t know where to look for car culture these days.

It is true that tuner culture was dormant for several years after 2008 because the economy was complete shit (btw, thank you for that, boomers) but I now see tuned cars with nearly as much frequency as I did before the economy tanked. But the culture around cars has been reconstituted in the meantime. After several years of dormancy some of the old trends and attitudes aren’t coming back, continuity was interrupted for too long.

SHARPSPEED > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 18:32

Not a teenager anymore, but I think I’m one of those “millenial” things everyone keeps bitching about. To answer your question, alot of us do like cars. Thing is cars are money. We don’t have alot of money. And before you re-post that list of under $2,000 cars, for a good amount of us even that’s too rich for our blood, and even then no teenager/young adult with even a passing interest in cars wants a ratty Stratus or Tiburon.

It also doesn’t help that in my rustiest of the rustbelt area car culture is nothing but boomers with Camaros, ‘stangs and entire rows of ‘vettes at the local winga-dinga-blasting car show. Variety is the spice of life, and cars are no different.

SHARPSPEED > mkbruin, Atlas VP
05/29/2018 at 19:34

Also forgot to say it but you any everyone else did but nonetheless; fuck insurance. When I started driving it was stupid how much I was dropping on it, and don’t even get me started on how it was after my accident. I didn’t even want a car half the time because of it and I still kinda don’t even though I’m on a much cheaper plan. At the risk of sounding like some edgelord scumbag I hope the higher-ups at every insurance company dies of super-AIDS in a fire. Bunch of greedy, inhuman bastards.